Further Thoughts on Wrestlers and Wish Lists

Note: This is a follow up from my previous post which is here: http://thedangerousqueen.blogspot.com/2013/09/on-july-24th-lufisto-posted-link-to-her.html

It was a rather weird coincidence that almost a week after I wrote and posted this that I got involved in a Twitter conversation. It started out as playful banter between Eryn and Markus Crane then spread to involve wish lists, at which point I gave my two cents. (It was too much of a coincidence, coming so soon after my writing this blog, for me to not jump in.) It then spread to involve the person behind the Squared Spandex podcast Twitter, a friend by the name of Greg Davis, and Patrick Creed (who works for both AAW and SHIMMER Women Athletes). Crane, Creed and the Squared Spandex person were both anti-wish list, for the following reasons:

Crane stated he was against wrestlers having wish lists since it looked like they were trying to take advantage of fans to him. Some fans bought gifts for wrestlers with the expectation of getting "closer" to said wrestlers. He gave an example of a girl who had posted her wish list and asked a guy to buy her stuff repeatedly, despite the fact the guy was mentally challenged. I gave the argument that if fans had ulterior motives (beyond wishing to say thank you to said wrestlers), they were idiots. He countered with the point that some are merely lonely and don't know any better, or they were a bit 'slow'. I observed that it looked like people who were virulently anti-wish list (not specifically Markus, as his statements were some of the less angry I have seen) were looking down both on wrestlers who had them and on fans who wanted to purchase gifts. He said that he wasn't looking down on fans at all, and repeated his point about wrestlers who have them looking like they wanted to take advantage of fans. "By having a wish list I feel wrestlers are just asking fans to buy them things."

It was at this point that I mentioned the coincidental timing regarding this blog. Crane said that he had just done a podcast with Shared Spandex and included their Twitter tag. This brought him/her into the discussion, their view point being that it seemed to "prey on fanboy/fangirl obsession." This was interesting to me, as I honestly had not thought about this aspect of it. It was at this point that Greg was tagged into the conversation, who agreed with me, saying he had always thought of it as just another way to support the wrestlers (after buying all the available merchandise). The conversation caught the attention of Pat Creed, who was blunt in his assessment: "Buy merch at the shows. If they don't have merch, leave it in the tip jar. Wish lists are simply a way to get free shit. Might as well have a kickstarter. ... It reeks of desperation on the performer's behalf. Get out there at intermission and work for it. Just my 2 cents."

Greg made the observation that I had, namely that the people involved in good independent wrestling were underpaid, so whatever helped them out was fine by him. I responded to Creed, agreeing with Greg, saying wish lists were another way of saying thank you to me. He then made the distinction of a fan deciding on their own initiative to bring a gift for a wrestler, and a wrestler asking for a gift, saying the latter made the person asking look desperate. SharedSpandex stated that, to them, someone thinking, "Man I wish I could buy Andre Dawson something nice for his birthday" sounded incredibly obsessive to them.

Perhaps wanting to clarify his remarks, Pat Creed tweeted me, "I don't want you to think I'm shitting on fans here. I'm not at all. A fan who wants to give a wrestler something extra is absolutely terrific and a great fan. I loathe LOATHE the desperate shilling of the performer. 'BUY ME THIS PS3 GAME!' Fuck you. Buy it yourself. I'll buy your t-shirt. If you use that money to buy the PS3 game, good for you! Please PLEASE don't mistake my anti-wish lists rant as an attack on fans. It's not that in any way shape or form." I assured him I hadn't taken it that way, and thanked him for offering his opinion.

Indeed, the conversation gave me new perspective on it. I can wholeheartedly agree with Creed in that wrestlers that perpetually ask for gifts, shill their wish lists or beg fans to buy them things come off as needy and desperate. I can think of one wrestler in particular who shills theirs at a drop of a hat. Most that I have seen may not wait until their birthday or Christmas to pass it along, but they haven't come across as desperate or begging (to me, at least). They are ones who, at SHIMMER and other shows I've seen them at (men and women), are out there shilling their merch and putting on great matches to earn the fans' money. However, I haven't seen anything like a tip jar (although I do occasionally tell them to keep the change, like if their shirt costs $15 and I give them a twenty) - this is a tremendous idea, if wrestlers were to put out tip jars I'd have no qualms contributing!

I also agree with Crane - there are some people out there who have no problems taking advantage of others who have mental incapacities, or of those who are simply good-natured and simply don't know any better. Maybe it shows how naive I am, but I honestly never thought about that possibility, even though I know people can be cruel and opportunistic. People like that ought to be exposed for the greedy assholes they are. As another friend, Christopher, said, "Wish lists are sources of good will from fans that some people choose to abuse."

I find SharedSpandex's comments the most troubling. After the comment about a fan having the thought of buying Andre Dawson, who I assumed was some sort of actor (Google tells me he's a retired baseball player), a gift for his birthday, I took a step back and thought about it for awhile afterwards. To me, there is a sharp distinction between someone who is well paid and can afford the finer things in life (for instance, I remember Matt Hardy saying in an interview that a fan had bought and shipped him a video game console; this was in the early 2000s after the Hardy Boyz were starting to gain fame and a following along with Edge and Christian post-No Mercy Ladder Match. Arguably, at this point, he could have afforded to buy a console if he wished to.); and those that we wish were paid what we feel they are worth. Because, as I noted above in the original blog post, there are dozens of great wrestlers who will never be signed and will never earn "WWE money." 

Knowing this, they still go out and give 100% in their matches, be it for 10 or 100 fans. They still opt to take the risk every time they step into the ring. They still travel for hours in all manner of weather, choosing to wrestle with injuries (major and minor). They choose this life because they love wrestling. That's something I greatly admire and respect about them. Hence, if after I've bought all the merchandise they have to offer; drive several hours to attend the shows they are on; and spread the word about them via social media; if they have a wish list, and I want to further say a personal thank you, I turn to it, usually on their birthdays or holidays. This isn't something I would do for people who can afford it such as people in WWE, or actors or the like and the idea of doing so for them strikes me as yes, obsessive and a bit creepy.

However, is there a distinction between the two really? My point of view is probably in the minority, in that I expect nothing in return and wish only to show my appreciation for their work, but does that make it any less obsessive and/or creepy? It's something to consider as being a wrestling fan doesn't exactly have the best reputation as it is. Why add to it by trying to extend beyond the established means of showing support? By extension then, what about the wrestlers who sell gear that they've worn in the past and the fans who buy it? What of the wrestlers that get injured and either set up a Kickstarter or some other kind of donation website to cover their funds and the fans who donate to help out? Where is the line drawn?

Being a fan of independent wrestling is a different thing than being a fan of WWE. Due to the various social media connections and the fact that several promotions have some sort of after party for fans and wrestlers to gather at, the bond between wrestlers and fans can feel more intimate than they really are. The lines become blurred and sometimes crossed completely. There are plenty of opportunities for wrestlers to take advantage of fans but also of fans to take advantage of wrestlers. It's a double edged sword.

So what, if anything, can be done about it? Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure anything can be done, to be honest. Sure, getting rid of the wish lists is one solution but there are other avenues for exploitation. If anything, however, the discussion I was involved in has given me much to think about. If anyone has their own thoughts to add, please feel free to leave a comment or Tweet me @PocketVolcano. Thanks to SharedSpandex, Markus Crane and Pat Creed for the discussion!